8th ed Demo Game

[W.E.G]

hey peeps was in Games worksho the other day and had my hands on the new book was quickly taken from me before any real info was taken (curse them) but there was a demo game being ran n one of my friends there made sum comments.

Okay, I can definitely confirm these:

Army construction is moving back to percentages.
Strength in Depth/ Stepping up (models may fight in 2 ranks)
Crush attack for larger creatures
40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks (?)
Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook
Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The pool is decided by 2D6. Magic users add their magic level to the score rolled. All Wizards have a chance to generate more power dice.
All missile units fire in two ranks (not just High Elves).
Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.
Combats are strictly decided in initiative order.

Warhammer 8th Ed Rulebook to be released July 10th
Possibly going to get the pdf erratas for all armies on July 6th
Introduction games for Warhammer 8th edition starting around May 22nd (only one scenario apparently)
Copies for Staff available early May


25% min core
25% lord 25% hero.

Infantry models in the second rank can fight, with a maximum of 1A per model. - Avian/Harry.
Most special rules apply as normal. however... Whatever combination of weapons/ special rules/ spells/ whatever, infantry can only ever attack with 1 attack per model in the second and subsequent ranks.
Spears +1 rank as normal, but one attack only (fighting in 3 ranks).
Spearelves may fight with an additional rank as normal (citzen levy).

This does not apply to Monstrous Infantry, who are rumoured to fight with their normal number of attacks from the second rank (more likely).

10+ wide units attack with one rank more than normal. There are no other requirements to be a Horde. - Avian

Stubborn
If you are only engaged to the front and have more ranks than the opponent, you are Stubborn. - Avian/Harry

Unit Strength
Unit Strength is completely gone, lots of things are altered to compensate for this. -Avian

Rank bonuses
Unchanged. Up to 3.


Monstrous Creatures
40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks. Ogre sized models are officially being put into their own size category (finally). (?)


Striking in Initiative order
Combat will always strictly be resolved in initiative order (confirmed).


Outnumbering Enemy
There will be no CR bonus for outnumbering the enemy.

Flank/ Rear charges & Combat Resolution
Units need to have at least 2 complete ranks in order to negate enemy flank/rear. (more likely)

Parry
The hand weapon & shield combination grants a 6+ Ward Save in combat to the front only. It provides no benefit if you are attacked in the flank or rear and does not work against impact hits and crush them/destroy them attacks. This replaces the +1 to Armour Save gained by fighting with HW & shield.

As ward saves do not stack normally, you won't get any benefit from Parry if you already have a better ward save. (?)

Terror comes with a chance to run away.

Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.

However ASF + higher initiative than your enemy: Reroll to hit rolls. So even if Swordmasters and White Lions are striking in initiative order they may get re-rolls to hit!

Frenzy
You still get +1 attack on the charge (front rank only). You may suppress charging with a leadership test. If you fail, you have to attack the closest target.

Magic Resistance
This has been changed to improve an existing Ward Save, or to grant a Ward Save to magic.

I can't confirm if MR stacks with already existing Ward Saves but also not discount it.

Magic Resistance 1 = +1 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 6+
Magic Resistance 2 = +2 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 5+
Magic Resistance 3 = +3 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 4+

MAGIC ITEMS

Apparently there is an absolutely HUGE list of magic items in the book… Could easily be 50+ (possibly 85). There is a chance you may not be able to duplicate most of them in a list.
10-20 items in each category.


Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook
15 or so missions in the new rulebook.

Bonuses and hazards for terrain (such as rolling the dice to see how many people don’t make it out of the wood...). This appears to be D6 for every model, on a 1 a model is lost. This is only the tip of the iceberg…
Finding a magic item in the woods.

There are rules for dangerous terrain, and for some unit types different types of terrain are treated as dangerous.

Allied Forces

Forces of Order: High Elves, Wood Elves, Lizardmen, Empire, Dwarfs and Brettonia

Forces of Destruction: Chaos of any kind, Skaven, Greenskins, Dark Elves (edit. Vampire Counts may go here).

Neutral: Ogres and Tomb Kings

Categories for core/special/rare are remaining.
Special Choices: No more than 3 of the same type - Examples; No more than 3 units of Chaos Knights, or 3 units of Forsaken etc in the same army.
Rare Choices: No more than 2 of the same type - Examples; No more than 2 Hellcannons, or 2 Chaos Giants etc in the same army.

There will be a system wide errata to clear up issues for each army.
You may measure distances whenever you want.

Charging.
Infantry M1-M6 = Basic Movement value + 2D6
Fast Attack M7+ (Cavalry and fliers) = Basic Movement value + 3D6 (use 2 highest) (?)
+1CR for charging. -Avian (more likely)

Marching.
Movement distance as normal. When there's an enemy within 8", the unit has to pass a leadership test to march. Not sure how this applies to Dwarfs.

Skirmishers
Skirmishers are now a fixed formation, with a 1 inch gap between each and every model. -
Still rank up in combat. May or may not have 360 Line of sight. (DON'T!)

MAGIC

Generating Power and Dispel Dice
Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The amount of dice is decided by 2D6. The active player gets the total as power dice and the other player the highest throw as dispel dice (throw 3+5, = 8 PD and 5 DD). (confirmed)

Channeling (confirmed that it exists)
Each wizard may roll a D6 and generate an additional power dice on a roll of 6.
Each enemy wizard may roll a D6 and generate an additional dispel dice on a roll of 6.
Maximum Power and Dispel Dice
Casting Spells
To cast a spell, roll 1 to 6 Power dice and add your caster's power level. EG: A Slann casts fireball and uses 2D6. He rolls a 3 and a 4 - score of 7. He than adds his Power Level of 4, which results in a total roll of 11.

Miscasting
Here is where I think we need a lot more information.
It is rumoured that miscasts are entirely gone, but are replaced by a combined irresistible force/ miscast table effectively:

When you roll a double 6 the spell is cast with irresistible force, but the Caster has to roll on the "lost control" chart, which is devastating, and far more worse than the current miscast table.


Determining Spells
Each lore now has 7 Spells. One Basic Spell and other spells numbered 1 - 6.

(As far as I have heard the 'basic' spell of each Lore is in addition to the normally generated spells, much like Invocation of Nehek for Vampire Counts).

Most spells generally have a basic and an up-powered version (more likely) – Avian

If a wizard fails to reach the casting value it is not a miscast

Spells are now categorized.

SHOOTING

Bows fire in 2 ranks as standard.
Units armed with bows, short bows and longbows fire in two ranks.

All missile troops fire from 2 ranks, but only bow type weapons have the salvo fire rule.

Salvo Fire
A rumour I heard a while back was that units with bows (see above), could fire with more than just 2 ranks. What I am being told now is that regardless of the width of the unit, a unit with bows may shoot with an additional half a rank for every rank behind the 2nd. I.e. 12 models wide, 3 ranks (36 models). 12 front rank, 12 2nd rank, 6 3rd rank = 30 shots.

True Line of sight
Units draw true line of sight. You are considered in cover when shot at through another unit, granting a -1 or -2 penalty on to hit rolls. Note that someone else has said this is more likely as well.

War Machines
Weapons using the flame template or large or small blast templates automatically hit any model in contact rather than cause partial hits. If you are touched, you are hit. -Avian and someone else, so I'm considering this confirmed now

War Machines: There'll be no guessing anymore. You place the template (or point of impact) where you want the weapon to hit and roll normally for scatter. Take with a big pinch of salt at this stage.

Other things:

Killing Blow
Killing blow only against models in a similar size category or lower (large creature>ogre sized> infantry/cavalry sized)
(edit: apparently this is close, but not quite right). Killing blow is still a roll of 6.

Apparently still works as normal. There is something called a Heroic Killing Blow that will deal with larger things like Ogres.

Fear and Terror
When you charge a Fear or Terror causer you take the Fear/Terror test not before you charge, but at the start of the combat phase. - Avian

Apparently Fear is continuously tested at the beginning of each new turn of Close Combat, possibly resulting in the infamous 6's to hit

Crush them!
Monstrous Cavalry and Monstrous Infantry are granted 1 bonus attack with the "always strikes last" special rule, at base strength. (edit. I believe only infantry and cavalry can be hit with these, nothing else.)

From what I gather this may replace the current Impact Hits rule, but not entirely sure on how it works

Discarded:

One Save.
A model can always take an armour save. They can then take either a ward save or a regeneration save.

Saves still work the same way they did in 7th.

Terrain
Difficult terrain may be merged with very difficult.

From what I gather difficult terrain has been done away with entirely.

Cavalry still only fight in 1 rank.

Apparently not true; however the mounts in the back rank may not fight.


My own:


Scenarios are a big part of the game but it will still be possible to play normal pitched battles.

The turn sequence remains the same. Movement, Magic, Shooting, Combat.

The scenario I've seen had a piece of terrain in the middle, a Chaos temple. Before the beginning of the game it was rolled who was in charge of the place. The army that rolled higher on a D6 was entitled to put one of their Core Units there before the beginning of the game. The objective was to have any (not just Core) unit there at the end of the game in order to win. The Chaos Temple allowed for 'sacrificing' the soul of a Champion/Character for random stats boost (or, on the roll of 1, a quick and painful death.)

There were mystical woods that contained unknown dangers (or possibly rewards). What exactly a wood does is rolled the first time a unit peeks its nose in there and it will retain this property for the rest of the game. For example, if a unit inside a specific wood is target of a spell, it takes a dice roll's amount of (S6?) hits, and the wood moves away in a random direction.

Allied Rules:
I didn't pay much attention since my interest was in the core rules. However I got the confirmation that there are three factions, Order, Destruction and Neutral.
Then there are three categories of allies: The good, the bad and the ugly which reflects the likeliness of the two armies joining forces. These categories may or may not depend on the faction you belong to. Depending on the quality of your allies, the synergy will be affected. For example good allies you'll treat muchly as friendly troops while ugly allies will apparently slightly interfere with your army whereas bad allies can be downright bad. For example when you flee through bad allies it is treated as moving through dangerous terrain, likely inflicting damage to your unit to the point that it may be wiped out.
Dark Elves and Skaven have an added twist; no one really trusts these guys. Independent from how the alliance starts out, a die must be rolled on the beginning of every (friendly?) turn (don't know the exact details on this), and if the dice roll was detrimental the diplomatic ties will deteriorate, resulting in a downgrading of the alliance status and therefore the army synergies.

There are no other restrictions on characters other than the aforementioned 25/25 so it is entirely possible to have entire 'units' made up of cheap Heroes, for example Skaven, Gobbos or Skinks. Not sure if I like that though.

Magic has seen a major boost; the basic Lores have changed completely and are far more devastating now to rival those of the most powerful army books and prone to affect gameplay greatly. On the downside the 'loss of control' chart is said to be just as devastating and can possibly wreck all your wizards at once, not only the one who lost control. I witnessed a (debuff) spell from Lore of Beasts that could be cast on 2 different power levels (I think it was 10 and 13) and conferred negative modifiers to shooting and possibly other stats to the target unit. In addition it would count as being in dangerous terrain if it would move. Lore of Heavens will recieve a spell that is 'like' Comet of Cassandora, so apparently very similar in effect.

Dangerous Terrain seems to work as rumored; every model in the unit needs to roll a D6 and take a wound on a roll of 1. This rule is apparently thought to be a major threat to fleeing units along the lines of the current 'popping', though I'm not entirely sure on the details.

For those who don't know about True line of Sight:
Lower your head while keeping the spears away from your eyes and see what they can see. No more terrain levels. Yes, this means that woods no longer grant a 'per se' visual cover. Shooting at a partially obscured unit in a wood will be at hard cover modifiers.

US has been entirely discarded. There is no more outnumbering and therefore no autobreaking from Fear/outnumbering.

Terror's Aura is gone; apparently it works now like a stronger form of Fear.

Apparently Fast Cavalry may make a free 12" move at the beginning of the game. This may allow for first-turn charges of carelessly placed War Machines.

Changes to CR:
As noted there is no more outnumbering while charging confers a +1 on CR. As for calculating rank bonus now only ranks you have actually left over after the fight count in this regard, no longer those you had at the beginning.

Magic Items:

Staff of Channeling (Wizard channels additional PD at the roll of 5+ instead of 6)

Screaming Blade:
Bearer causes Fear (like that wasn't a standard item in every army anyway)

Potion of Strength:
20 points, +D3 S for one turn

Potion of Toughness:
20 points, +D3 T for one turn

(I think Teclis might like these)

When you destroy an enemy unit you can apparently either overrun or immediately reform to face the direction of your liking. This will go great lengths at improving mobility of units.

Skirmishers do now have flanks and rear like like ranked units and normal non-360 degrees view. They shoot normally from 2 ranks. However when not charging they may reform on the move as often as they wish and also MARCH AND SHOOT!!!!!

Note that while now fighting in a 'semi-formation', Skirmishers still get no rank bonus.

Since Unit Strength is gone, it can no longer be used to negate rank bonus. Instead you need a unit that has at least 2 ranks to do so. This means that cavalry as currently fielded will not break ranks.

With fighting in 2 ranks, spears, 10+ models rule and HE bonus it means that HE Spearmen will be able to strike from 5 ranks. Ouch. So much for the doomsayers that saw the army ruined. Maybe the humble HE Core will see more action soon...

cant say 100% all this is accurate but he was there fro demo from start to finish i only caugh tail end so take it all with a pinch of salt to be safe

[W.E.G]

so thoughts? i personnaly hate most of this so praying my friend got it wrong. i can live with the magic and army build but the rest just ruins fantasy

[Ross]

I look forward to see these changes. Or at least some or most of them.

[Ben]

I think I hate most of these changes. Just trying to work out if my hatred is irrational or justified.

[Marc]

To be honest, I'm loving the changes i don't see the overall game changing to dramatically. mostly it seems that units are being made to better reflect what they are, eg infantry being able to use their mass numbers to their advantage and still able to fight even if they lose a few of their number.

The magic phase sounds more balanced, as now u no longer need to include a great deal of wizards just to protect urself from it. If you are going magic heavy it sounds like spells can be cast easier (with the whole adding level to casting roll) and with the basic lores becoming more powerful even one or two spells a turn can be effective.

The 25% Lord 25% hero sounds good as in a standard 2,000 point game that allows 500 pnts for a lord, 500 pts for heroes so that means character dependant armies (eg. Vamps) won't be as nerfed as we initially thought.

I myself am enjoying the sound of these common magic items as more items means more combos. I'm imagining a common enchanted Crown that can give a model +1 Ld, ideal for generals!

Since combat will be strictly in initiative order i imagine weapon rules and others may change to reflect this, eg Great Weapons might not be auto-stike last but may say give the wielder a -2 I penalty meaning that they are likely to strike last. Always Strike First may be a +3 I bonus meaning u are very likey to strike first, but not guaranteed.

So I am looking forward to these rules, this may be because I don't see any of these rules greatly crippling the armies I play, so I may be biased. So I would like to know what others think about the rules, what they like what they don't and why

[W.E.G]

army wise the restrictions stop a proper greater daemon and stops me having 3 geared heros (pos daemon prince use at last).

tomb kings no more casket but it theres no cap on no of charcters per section may be able to sqeeze a high liche priest and king so may br happier over all :-)

lizards r fine since still get a good slann build for 500pts.

goblins are perfect the way they are and again gain more power if i can get more character choices.

beastmen im slightly over for heros so need to loose somthing.

wood elves . . . . ill go with fine :-)

think thats the bulk of my forces so no real changes need to be made cept goblins who may be getting sum goblin lords 55pts each woohoo

[Ben]

Vampires...

No more autobreaking to fear - nerfed
No more outnumbering - nerfed
No more use for level 1 vampires - nerfed
Definitely no more use for necromancers - nerfed
No more aura of terror - nerfed
No more striking first on charge - nerfed (Remember undead are all low I)
No more knights negating ranks - nerfed
No more failed charges due to fear - nerfed
Have to spend at least 500pts on crappy core units - nerfed

There are no advantages to using vamps in this edition. You'll find I'll be fielding more Empire, which for some reason have become amazing now that there's no such thing as guess range and partials.

[Gordo]

Well I have only recently been considering getting a fantasy army either Dwarves, High Elves, or Brettonia. So I have no idea what the previous edition was like. However I have been considering getting into another non GW wargame

[W.E.G]

righty o guys had my own 8th ed demo games tonite and first off bloody hell soo many changes. this will all be kinda randomly placed as im typing the stuff i remeber as it comes to me.

firstly army construction there are no restriction to number of lords or heros.
there is the 25% lord, 25% hero, minimum 25% core, ONLY 25% special and 25% rare.
you cant have any more than 3 of the same special and no more than 2 of the same rare choice (this does mean that high elves can only hav max 2 bolt throwers at 2000pts where as dark elves can have for because there still 2 for 1).
lord can be takin at any point limit so thats a big tes got goblin lord at 500pts lol
there are new rules in the book for the nurgle plague tower, emperor dragon (WS7, S7, 10W, 7 ATKS) asuming this thing is expensive as hell.
skirmishers still see and shoot 360 line of sight but never get ranks or negate ranks. but they move more as a ranked unit tis weird.
units that have more ranks than there opponent have stubborn
couldnt confirm the large target killing blow yet.
charging has changed alot, infantry rolls 2 dice and adds its basic movment. cav rolls 3d6 and adds movement and takes away the lowest.
bsb now lets u re-roll any failed ld test
bsb and standards are only worth 25 victory points each

ummms what else

ooh units can fight in two ranks spears 3 ranks if the unit is 10 wide an additional rank may fight
units can shoot in 2 ranks bows can fire in 2 and add half of the shot after the 2nd rank. ie a unit of 20 tomb king archers 5x4 can shoot 15 shots because 10 from the front 2 ranks, and half of 10 is 5 so 15.

the magic phase is as expected the player whose turn it is rolls 2d6 total is added to that players pool as power dice and the highest single d6 is added to the defending players dispel pool.
wizards get to roll a dice each for each 6 rolled another dice is added to their resective pools.
as far as i was told there can be no more than 12 dice in each pool at any one time, but if 3 was used then they could be replenished with spells like the ones daemons and dark elfs have.
when casting or dispelling spells the wizard add his level, im assuming for dispel purposes ud use the highest lv wizard.
bound spells have also changed now to be used the user must use a dice from the pool and roll equal too or higher than the bound spell itself which i think is crap.
if a wizard uses only a single dice to cast (bye bye vamps) and rolls a 1 then they cant cast any more spells this magic phase.
sume bad/weird/wtf new stuff the lore of magic a wizard will be using must be writtin on the army list before any battle (ie once a lore is chosen they stick with ot for all the games till list is re-written) so could be very weird for any tournies.
miscast table is horrific. one i really remeber is 8 - the wizard and all friendly casters suffer a S6 hit.
ooh to actually miscast is funnier. basically if you get an irrestable force u cast the spell then miscast :-) so hopefully stop some evil wizards roaming the land and pitting innocent creatures.

talking of which the spells them selves basically theres alot of them. still fire, metal etc but each lore has a special ability. for instance fire if a 2nd fire spell is cast on a unit the unit takes additional damage, lore of shadows lets u teleport ur wizard lore of life heals him. and these arnt spells these are effects of casting spells.

lore of fire only saw first spell - fireball 5+ d6 S4, 8+ 2d6 S4, 14+ 3D6 S4

pit of shades is gone to be replaced with its big brother, sumthin purple sumthin sumtihng basically 2 casting levels (as every spell seems to have) first is small template over target then it scatters artilary dice x3 the roll in random direction. bigger version on a 25+ is the large template.

lore of life has ability to pick friendly unit within 18" and heal the unit by 3d6 wounds, hope it works against daemons the new vampire counts

heavens comet is still there but bigger 2 levels again sumthin bout the number of tokens +2 for the strength and 2d6 hits, bigger one is tokens x 2 + 2.

umms what eles . . . . ooh fast cav can make a movement before the game starts, and it doesnt count as moving for purpose of shooting, more importantly pos turn one charges for my tomb king chariots woop woop.

muscians allow the unit to reform as often as they want finally a useful use lol

terrian is very useful and all terrian has abilities. start of game use d6+4 for number of terrian pieces. theres a goblin forest that hurts enemies, any goblin unit in it gets poison and frenzy sumthin to do with mushrooms being grown. theres forests that move . towers that summon wraiths tis really weird.

theres a few new magic items i got to see (these items can onl be taken by armies who have access to the commin magic item list. so no for daemons and dwarfs - oooh dwarfs have new ability an automatic +2 to dipel attempts ontop of the extra dice so with banner and item +5 to dispel spells wtf!!) any way there a fold up tower that let the user unpack a watch tower and deploy it in his zone before game starts. couple of weapons 60pts +3 strength and another +3 atks.

mounts that dont have a specific section (like the stegadons and engine come out of the heros point slots) where as if they have a specific section liek dragons count as hero so its cost is takin from there, casket is rare so it comes out of rare points.

combat is Int based so far nothing bout pluses to I for weapons except great weapons Strike last, except if that model has strike first rule then it strikes on I order.

thats all i can rember for now any questions post em up and ill see if remeber if anything was mentioned if not can go in and ask :-)

cya all

[Marc]

Froced terrain, i wonder what their motivation was behind that, also "sumthin purple sumthin sumtihng" is a very strange name sounds like a gobbo has been sampling his magic mushrooms. Well the new rules sound fun, but I'm sure they're are plenty who disagree

EDIT

Um, W.E.G I hate to remind you of something you may already know, Teclis ignores his first miscast each turn, he'll happily still get irrisistable force and just ignore the downside

EDIT AGAIN

Also, fold up tower that a wizard can bring... does this remind anyone else of Budha and his Castle Singing?

[W.E.G]

yeah but with casting value in the 20's+ meetin the value becomes harder. although every wizard can use a max of 6 dice.

any way forgot sum stuff

warmachine crew are now part of the machine so only 3 wounds but against shooting atack T7.

if a unit champion kills a hero or lord then u gain an additional 50 pts for victory points

right minos and ogre size guys now have a bonus attack at the end of each round of combat. its a single auto hit at there base strength. large targets ie ghorgons, giants etc get d6 attacks at end of combat.

sum horrible things for hydra and dragons. they may only make a single breath attack per game and once in combat can make an additonal 2d6 attacks once per game. i really need to find out more bout that part it seems complicated.

fear and terror. fear is takin every round of combat if failed ws is reduced to 1. terror no 6" terror bomb but if charged or charging and fail test u still flee.

flyers have also changed, its now 10" basic movement and a 20" march, unsure bout shooting for guy on these beasts.

magic resistance works as i thought, basically
MR 1 - 6+ Ward - or +1 to current ward save
MR 2 - 5+ Ward - or +2 to current ward save
MR 3 - 4+ Ward - or +3 to current ward save

when i remeber more ill post again

[W.E.G]

so more things i have learnt

killing blow - as it is now even for my ghorgon :-( only works against infantry, mounted models and war beasts (dogs, which i think would include flesh hounds).

heroic killing blow - i beleive this to be given to lords and heros who have the ability (skulltaker already a garentee) and basicaly still to wound roll of a 6 but kills anything dragons ogres daemons etc.

enchanted shield is now 5pts, just says increase the wearers armour save by 2 points.
theres another 5 point shield giving bearer a 2+ armour save (pos a ward) against the first wound suffered

5 point arcane item + 1 to channeling (thats when each wizard rolls for extra power/dispel dice so from a 6 to a 5+) always good fo scroll caddy i supose

power stone and dispel scroll r still there doing the same thing

magic banner for 5pts lets u re-roll first failed ld test

15,30 and 45pt talismans giving magic res 1,2,3.
45pt armour giving 4+ save and 5+ ward

there is a +1ld item just cant remeber if it was banner or talisman

lore of magic abilities.

basically every lore now has a bonus (kinda has to since once a wizards chosen that lore hes not alowed 2 change it.

so fire - if a unit has already suffered from a direct damage or missile already this phase even from a different wizard then the wizard may add d3 to his casting roll. and all fire spells count as flaming

metal - all count as flaming, all spells are based on targets armour save if target doesnt have one then none of the metal spells can affect them.

life - everytime a spell is sucessfully cast the wizard himself or a friendly model with in 12" may regain a wound already lost in battle

light - any direct or missile dame does an extra d6 against undead and daemons

beasts - if any spell is cast on war beast, monster or any unit from armies:beastmen the spell casting value is reduced by 1. bears angerss till there but weaker, 2 castin lvls first on a 7 i beleive 12" range but only +1 s and +1 t. 2nd one is 24" range cast on a 12 think its same again 1s and 1t.

number 7 spell can transform your wizard into a griffon, war hydra or a dragon but its cast in the 20's sumwhere

shadow - whenever the wizard casts a spell he my instantly exchange places with a model of the same type. i think this means on foot, mounted etc or could mean another wizard.

death - my favourite so far for slann. basically everytime a dame or missile spell causes a wound roll for each wound caused on the roll of a 5 or 6 add an addional dice to the pool. so an army of death could have a really really long magic phase.

also bound items not only need to be cast to be used but if a is rolled for a bound spell in an item then the items destroyed.

so whts ppls thoughts so far

[W.E.G]

Lost Control Chart

The loss of Control table is 2D6.

2-4: Strength 10 large template over the wizard. Then on a 1-2 the wizard is removed from play, 3+ you lose D6 power dice.
5-6: Strength 10 small template over the wizard. Lose D6 power dice
7: Lose D6 power dice, Strength 10 hit on everyone in base contact with the wizard (NOT the wizard)
8-9: Strength 6 hit on every caster on your side, lose D6 power dice
10-12: Wizard loses D3 levels & random spells for each of them.


Determining SpellsEach lore now has 7 Spells. One Basic Spell and other spells numbered 1 - 6.
While writing the armylist, you will have to note which lore your magic users will use. You may not wait until you see the enemies forces. - I'm not sure how well that will actually work in practice...
Next you need to see which casters can have which spells. Roll D6 and see which spell you got, similar to how it is now. Any spell can be swapped for the Basic Spell. If you roll double for a spell you have to re-roll until you have the required number for the wizard level.
As no two spells from the rulebook Lores can be duplicated in the army (except the Basic Spell), if you want more than 1 wizard to have spells from the same lore you now have a choice to make.

Example: You have 3 wizards you want to use the Lore of Fire. A level 4, a level 3 and a level 1.

Do you give the level 4 wizard 3 spells + the Basic Spell? Or 4 spells and leave the remaining 2 spells plus the Basic Spell for the level 3 wizard? The level 1 wizard has no options other than the Basic Spell in this example, as all the other spells have already been taken.

There are some exceptions to this way of choosing spells:
Bound spells
Spells the caster knows "naturally", eg Warrior Priests or Khemri Priests
Spells that are not rolled for but bought, i.e. Necromancers.


Bound spells
Bound spells are cast like normal spells now, but instead of your caster's power level, you add the level of the magic item. They do not roll on the Loss of Control table, the items are just destroyed if they roll the double 6. Bound abilities like the warrior priests they just forget the spell. Bound Spells may be duplicated in an army
Every magic user has access to the pool.

Most spells generally have a basic and an up-powered version (more likely) – Avian
Something rumoured is carrying over power dice, but holding too many could lead to a ‘magic backlash’. Wizard will recieve wounds or hits if he didn't use the excess power-dice (than originally allocated) at end of the turn.
Spells can be chosen, not rolled for, but can't be duplicated in the same army with the exception of the first spell of the lore -Avian (more likely)
If you roll a 1 or 2 when casting a spell, the spell automatically fails regardless of modifiers and the wizard may no longer cast this turn.


Spells are now categorized. There are: Missiles, Curses, Buffs, Direct Damage and Power Whirl spells.
Magic Missiles: Require Line of Sight and may not be cast into close combat.
Hex: Modify enemy stats and/or equipment. May be cast into combat.
Augmentation (Buffs): Support your own troops. May be cast into combat, and may be cast on units not in your 90 degree arc of sight.
Direct damage: Spells that use templates or apply to the whole target unit.
Power whirls: A template that moves across the table.
It is rumoured that ‘remains in play’ spells are not auto dispelled by casting another spell.

Lore of Fire - The Wind of Aqshy

Special Bonus: If the enemy suffered a wound from a fire lore spell earlier this magic phase, the casting costs of Lore of Fire spells on the same target is lowered by d3, cumulative.

Basic Spell: Fireball: Magic Missile
D6 S4 hits 24" range
2D6 S5 hits 36" range
3D6 S6 hits 48" range

Burning Head Magic Missile. 24" Range. S4. Scales up to 36" range.

Flaming Sword(s) of Rhuin: Unit Buff. Grants +1 to wound and flaming attacks.

Firestorm: Direct Damage. Place the small template within 36" of the caster, It then scatters D6" and causes str 4 hits. The scaled up version uses the large template but scatters 2d6".

Flaming Arrows: Direct Damage. Range 24". D3 Hits per rank of 5+ models, Str 4. The scaled up version is 36" range, possibly stronger as well.


Lore of Metal - The Wind of Chamon

Special Bonus: Direct damage spells from the lore of metal have no strength value. Instead the unmodified armour save of the target is the required roll to wound.

Basic Spell (name): D6 flaming hits, No armor saves allowed.

(name): Hex. Swap the enemies armour save for their toughness, e.g. 1+ save and toughness 3 becomes toughness 1 and 3+ save.

(name): Unit Buff. Possibly a spell that grants every unit in 12" scaly skin (5+ armour)

(name): Direct Damage. Every model in the target unit is killed and turned to gold on a D6 roll of 5+ (multi-wound models on a 6+). Friendly units within 12” are subject to stupidity until the next magic phase as they are distracted by all the gold.

Lore of Shadow - The Wind of Ulgu

Special Bonus: After the wizard successfully casts a spell, he may switch places with another friendly character of the same unit type within 18".

(name): Characters only Buff. Switch the position of two characters that are 'within 18"' (not sure if they have to be within 18" of each other, or just to the caster).

Lore of Beasts - The Wind of Grrrr (Ghur)

Special Bonus: If targeted on cavalry, beasts, monstrous cavalry, monstrous beasts (razorgor, giant eagles etc), chariots, Monsters, or any unit from WA: Beastmen, the wizard gains an additional + 1 to cast.

(name): Unit Buff. +1 Strength and Toughness

Curse of Anraheir Caster Buff. +3 strength and +3 Attacks

Amber spear. Magic Missile. As Hunter's Spear.
(name). Caster Buff. The caster BECOMES the creature, not summoned on any board edge etc.

Becomes the Hydra, Black Dragon on one casting roll. Becomes the Greater Fire Dragon or Mountain Chimera on a casting roll 4 higher.

Mountain Chimera
S7 T7 W10, Fly, 4D6 attacks! Mage has to be on foot. Remains in play.

Greater Fire Dragon
WS8 S8 T8 W8 A8 Ld9, breathweapon S5, scaly skin 2+, terror, fly. mage has to be on foot. Remains in play


Lore of Heavens - The Wind of Azyr

Special Bonus: Any flier wounded by spells from the lore of heavens takes an additional D6 strength 4 hit.

Urions Thunderbolt. Magic Missile. The same as 7th edition, but D6 strength 6 hits now.


Blizzard. Hex. Anything that uses a BS to shoot has a -1 to hit modifier. Anything that doesn't use BS can only shoot on 4+.


(name). Hex. Can be cast on an enemy unit within 12". The unit must re-roll any 6's to hit, to wound, or for their armour save. The scaled up version is any unit within 24".


(name). Unit Buff. Any friendly unit within 12" of the caster can re-roll all 1s from to hit rolls, wound rolls, and armour save rolls. The scaled up version is any unit within 24".


Wind. Direct Damage. The enemy unit is pushed back D3+1" directly away from the wizard. If the unit hits any terrain it takes D6 S 3 hits. If the unit hits another unit both units take D6 S 3 hits. The scaled up version pushes units back D6+2".


Chain Lightning. Direct Damage. D6 strength 6 hits on a unit within 24" of the wizard. After you determine the results roll a dice on a 3+ you may choose a unit within 12" of the previous unit hit and then that unit is hit by D6 strength 6 hits. This continues until you roll a 1 or 2.


Comet of Casandora. Direct Damage. Once cast it cannot be dispelled. The range is 2D6" plus an additional inch for every counter on it. The Damage caused by it is 2D6 strength is 4 hits, but is +1 strength for every counter on it. It comes down on a 4+. If it does not come down place a marker. The scaled up version automatically starts with 2 markers on it. Every turn it does not come down an additional 2 markers are put on it.


Lore of Light - The Wind of Hysh

Special Bonus: If targeted on a undead or daemonic unit, spells from the lore of light deal an additional D6 hits.

Basic Spell: Ray of Light: Magic Missile. D6 S4 hits to a unit within 24", causing flaming attacks. The scaled up version has an increased range and strength.

Blinding Light: Unit Buff. Affects one friendly unit within 12", all to hit rolls against this unit have a -1 modifier. All auto-attacks or auto-hits have to roll a 4+ or are wasted. May be extended to all units in 12"

As fast as Light: Unit Buff. Choose one unit within 24". It has Weapon Skill 10 and Initiative 10.

Beacon of Hope: Unit Buff. Rally 1 fleeing unit. Targeted unit automatically passes all Leadership tests until casters next magic phase.

Amynotoks Web: Hex. Targeted enemy unit has to pass a Strength test for each action they want to take (move, shoot, cast spells, pursue, flee, strike in cc, etc.) If they fail they may not perform the intended action and suffer D6 S4 hits instead. Lasts until casters next magic phase.

Exorcism: Direct Damage. Deals 2D6 S4 hits, against which all successful Ward saves must be re-rolled. For each wizard other than the caster using the lore of light within 12", the strength is increased by 1.

Temporal Warp: Unit Buff. Targeted friendly unit doubles its movement characteristic, increases its Attacks by 1 and gains the ASF special rule until casters next magic phase. The scaled up version is for all friendly units within 12"


Lore of Life - The Wind of Ghyran

Special Bonus: Every time the caster successfully casts a spell from the Lore of Life he can restore a wound to one model within 12”

Basic spell: Shooting -1 to hit modifier and -1 leadership. If the enemy didn’t use BS they are 4+ to shoot.

Forest Lord: Magic missile. Magic missile attack to any enemy unit within 18" of a forest. Or D6 strength 5 hits or 2d6 strength 5 hits to a unit in the forest.

Regeneration (name?): Unit Buff. Regeneration (6+) to one unit within 12”

Master of Stone: Unit Buff. +2 Toughness to one unit.

Regrowth (name?). Unit Buff. One unit regains D3+1 wounds/models, just like invocation (champ first, then musician/standard, then rank and file. Characters are selected separately)

Throne of Vines: Caster Buff. If this is successfully cast it increases the effect of other lore of life spells made by the caster: Regeneration becomes 5+, Master of Stone becomes +4 Toughness!!!, Forest Lord all hits become Strength 6, Regrowth regains D6+1 wounds. Something for the 6th spell as well.

I heard something about an immunity to miscast on a 2+ for the lore of life, but I don’t know if this is their 6th spell, a remains in play caster buff.

Lore of Death - The Wind of Shyish

Special Bonus: For each wound caused by lore of death spells, roll a D6. On a roll of 6 you are granted an additional power dice.

Purple Sun. Power whirl. A crystal sphere drifting above the battlefield. It uses the 3 inch template, moving artillerydice multiplied by 3 inches from the wizard into a chosen direction. Each model touched has to pass a Initiative test or is removed from play. The scaled up version uses the large template...

1.Giantsblade-[60 pts] +3 Strength in close combat.
2.Bloodbath Sword - [60 pts] + 3 attacks (cheaper than equiv runes)
3.Obsidianblade - [50 pts] Wounds with this weapon ignore armour saves
4.Ogreblade - [40 pts] +2 Strength in close combat
5.Sword of Quarrel - [40 pts] Bearer gains 2 attacks (cheaper than equiv runes)
6.Duelling Blade- [35 pts] Weapon pair, bearer has weapon skill 10
7.Heroslayer - [30 pts] Bearer gains 1 attack and strength for every character model that is in base contact with him or his unit. Bonus is calculated at the beginning of every close combat
8.Spell-Steal Blade [25 pts]If a wizard his wounded with this sword, he will lose one random spell for each wound
9.The Battle's sounding - [20 pts] Bearer gains 1 attack (cheaper than equiv runes)
10.Sword Of might - [20 pts] +1 strength in close combat
11.Beserker Sword - [20 pts] Bearer gains frenzy and can never lose it
12.Golden seal sword - 15 pts] Attacks are done with initiative 10 (cheaper than equiv runes - imagine this on a Slayer character.... *dreams*)
13.Nimble Blade - [15 pts] Bonus of +1 to hit (cheaper than equiv runes - I am not at home at the moment, but I think this is SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper and yes, can't be combined, but hell i'd use our rune on it's own at this price!)
14.Tearing Blade -[10 pts] - Attacks are armour piercing (WAAAY to cheap on an ogre or minotaur character)
15.Relic sword - [10 pts] - Attacks with this sword wound always on 5+, or better if one would wound normally on a lower score. (I can see goblin and other lesser heroes making monster hunters out of this one... )
16.Screeching Blade - [10 pts] Bearer causes fear
17.Sword of Pain- [5 pts] - Monster or character that loses one or more wounds to this sword, will suffer from stupid
18.Krieger curse - [5 pts] - Monster or character that loses one or more wounds to this sword, will lose one attack (but will keep at least one attack)

Magic Armour
19. Armour of Destiny - [50 pts] Heavy armour, 4+ ward save
20. Rouge helm - [50 pts] +1 Armour Save, enemy has to re-roll successful wounds
21. Silver steel armour - [45 pts] Armour save 2+, can not be further improved
22. Armour of fortune - [35 pts] Heavy armour, 5+ ward save
23. Helm of discord - [30 pts] +1 Armorsave, enemy character model has to pass a leadership test, if it fails, it can not attack and will be hit automatically
24. Glittering scale armour - [25 pts] - Light armour, -1 to hit in close combat.
25. Shield of Ptolos - [25 pts] Buckler, 1+ armour save against missile attack
26. Spell shield - [20 pts] Buckler, bearer gains magic resistance (1)
27. Armour of the lucky adventurer [20 pts] Heavy armour, 6+ ward save
28. Dragonhelm - [10 pts] Armour save is better by 1, 2+ ward save against fire attacks
29. Enchanted Shield - [5 pts] Buckler, Armour save is better by 2 (same price as a rune of stone for +2 armour!! (so gromril armour saves for every army it seems (yes I know they can only use one))
30. Luck-bringer shield - [5 pts]Buckler, only one use, first hit will be ignored by 2+

Talismans
31. Talisman of preservation - [45 pts] Bearer gains 4+ ward save
32. Large Obsidian amulet -[45 pts] Bearer gains magic resistance (3)
33. Talisman of endurance - [30 pts] Bearer gains 5+ ward save
34. Obsidian Amulet - [30 pts] Bearer gains magic resistance (2)
35. Pond stone - [25 pts] Bearer re-rolls missed armour saves
36. Opal Amulet- [15 pts] Only one use, 4+ ward save against first wound
37. Obsidian pendant - [15 pts] Bearer gains magic resistance (1)
38. Talisman of protection - [15 pts] Bearer gains ward save 6+
39. Seeds of rebirth - [10 pts] Bearer gains 6+ regeneration
40. Dragoncurse stone - [5 pts] Bearer gains 2+ ward save against fire attacks
41. Something about flying - [5 pts] Bearer gain 5+ ward save against models with the “flying” rule.
42. Stone of Good Luck - [5 pts]- Only one use, Bearer can re-roll one missed armour save

Magic Standard
43. Standard of bloodlust - [55 pts] Unit can re-roll attacks
44. Howling standard [50 pts] Unit causes 'horror' (Not sure if he meant fear or terror)
45. Ranger's banner - [50 pts] Unit gains “terrain knowledge???”(Maybe something along the strider rumors we heard?)
46. Standard blade - [45 pts] Unit gains armour piercing (Ouch, can you imagine this on skaven plague monks or something like it... say goodbye to Ironbreakers!!)
47. War banner - [35 pts] +1 Combat Resolution
48. The rushing banner -[15 pts] +1 on movement range
49. Bone standard - [15 pts] Magic resistance (1)
50. Standad of Disciple - [15 pts] +1 on leadership, but can not use the generals leadership
51. Banner of the eternal flame [10 pts] Unit causes fire attacks
52. Radiant flag [5 pts] Only one use, unit can re-roll first failed leadership test
53. Scarecrow banner - [5 pts] Unit causes fear on all units with “fyling”

Enchanted Items
68. Wizards Hat - [100 pts], Level 2 mage, random magic lore, stupid
69. Pocket-watchtower - [100 pts] When both armies have placed their terrain and troops, you can place a watchtower. Rules are in the rules book
70. Arabic rug/Magic Carpet - [50 pts] Infantry and monstrous infantry gain flying, cannot join units (flying Ogre Tyrant... my god))
71. Crown of command - [35 pts] Bearer is Stubborn
72. Healing Potion - [35 pts] Only one use, gain D6 lost wounds. (Damn this would be nice.... but to halp make my point, this item obviously has a LOT more value to a model with 6+ wounds than a character with 3 (even though you could roll a 1 in every game, the chance is still there))
73. Winged Curse ring - [35 pts] Flying creatures and their riders have to re-roll successful hits against bearer/unit
74. Rubyring of destruction - [25 pts] Bound spell (energy level 3) Fireball
75. The mask of Horror - [25 pts] Bearer causes horror. Other units are not allowed to use his leadership
76. Potion of Stregth - [20 pts] Only one use, +3 strength(thought it was d3?)
77. Potion of Toughness - [20 pts] Only one use, +3 toughness (same as above)
78. The other rouge shard [15 pts] All models in base contact (friend and foe) need to re-roll successful saves
79. Curse Icon -[5 pts] 6+ ward against war machines
80. Potion of recklessness - [5 pts] Only one use, Immute to Psychology and killing blow.(Guessing its for one turn or one round of combat?)