W.E.G
Adventurer
Posts: 230
|
Post by W.E.G on Nov 2, 2010 10:47:18 GMT
strtin high elves soon n got a question high elves magic banner of the world dragon tis 60 points making them totally immune to spell effects. does this stop a mage in the unit who miscasts n gets a roll which does damge to the unit either by template or each model in base contact?
also any idea why the folding towers been banned form nats this year? iv never seen it as an overly powerful magic item
|
|
W.E.G
Adventurer
Posts: 230
|
Post by W.E.G on Jan 9, 2011 11:36:42 GMT
ok time for Some new question since my last one got soooo many responses
question then 1st : p90-p91 of the BfB. under lances and spears for mounted models both say that the spear/lance is only used in the first round of combat then the model switches to their hand weapons. does this mean that if a lance or spear gives u say the killing blow effect ud only have it for the first round of combat?
question B : not really a question just a bit of broken rules. Terror states that when a charge is declared but before the distance is rolled the unit being charged must take a panic test. so this would mean a dragon 21" away could declare a charge on a unit who then fail terror test and flee then if the dragon passes ld test and do it again on a different unit? could be really nice for gettin rid of flankin units straight away
any thoughts?
|
|
Marc
Commoner
Enjoy The Moment
Posts: 48
|
Post by Marc on Jan 9, 2011 13:00:24 GMT
To your first question, the nov. 2nd one, No they would still have to suffer the effects, (i think) as a miscast is a catastrophic result of a spell gone horribly wrong (or right ;D) AND is NOT a spell effect. The banner states the unit is immune to the spells effects. and a miscast takes place AFTER the spell is resolved
Question B of your 9th Jan '11 post. Fliers have M10 and can march 20", for charging a dragon would be 10 + 3D6 (discarding lowest d6 as fliers have swiftstride) so a dragon could charge 22" so yes a dragon 21" away could declare a charge, cause the unit to flee due to terror then fail it's charge.
A charge cannot be declared if the distance is greater than the MAX possible distance, so if say the dragon was 23" away it would not be able to declare
At lease that sounds like the most logical way of doing things, any thoughts?
|
|
W.E.G
Adventurer
Posts: 230
|
Post by W.E.G on Jan 9, 2011 17:53:36 GMT
the dragon part was more aimed at the u declare a charge and b4 u even roll to see if u make it the terror test is made seems a bit cheesey if ur say 22" prob never goin to make it yet a block of 20+ guys just flee pos even off the board and loose all those points for sumthin that would prob never of even reached them
|
|
Ben
Adventurer
Rules Lawyer
Posts: 213
|
Post by Ben on Jan 9, 2011 20:38:12 GMT
That rule was pretty much the same in last edition, except you could declare impossible charges, so I don't see why it sounds that broken to you.
As for the lances thing, I'm pretty sure you can only use it in the first round even if it is magic. I remember Matt crying over the one he gave his Dreadlord. The rule is odd though, because it does sort of fly in the face of the rule where you have to use special weapons instead of hand weapons if you have them.
|
|
Paul
Adventurer
The Stallmaster3000
Posts: 216
|
Post by Paul on Jan 9, 2011 22:12:35 GMT
question 1 - miscast would occur as usual as it is not a spell effect but a miscast effect
questions 2 - it is a possible tactic, just dont expect to make any friends with it (though new rules make it harder to fail such test , slightly)
question 3 - u would still continue to use the magic banner in subsequent rounds with all benefits, except for those benefits granted through charging (i.e. +2 str)
|
|
W.E.G
Adventurer
Posts: 230
|
Post by W.E.G on Jan 9, 2011 22:59:55 GMT
thanking you all
so q1 disapointing cant make a totally safe haven for a mage
q2. with the pos redirect charge means u could have 2 untis fleeing early on and if u pic them right they'l hopefully be out of bsb range
q3. see i thought the continue using the special weapon rule over ruled the spear n lance rules but saw a game with a wood elf noble useing killing blow spear on stag, 2nd round of combat hed lost the killing blow cause he had to switch weapons
|
|
Ben
Adventurer
Rules Lawyer
Posts: 213
|
Post by Ben on Jan 10, 2011 1:31:27 GMT
Looked out my rules lawyer hat and sat down to properly read the rules on magic weapons and lances. The following is my opinion only (as Games Workshop haven't FAQ'd it), however I have tried to provide reasonable evidence for all my points.
Firstly, page 90 states "A lance is only used in a turn in which the wielder charged into combat. In subsequent turns (or if the wielder did not charge) the model uses its hand weapon." Meanwhile on page 501 we are told "A character that has a magic close combat weapon cannot use any other close combat weapons". Commonly specific rules trump general ones, and since the first here refers to only lance weapons, whilst the second refers to all magic weapons, I am already leaning towards the lance rule being the correct one. We can find further evidence to support this by realising that the rule on page 501 is actually already covered on page 89, "if the model also carries a magical close combat weapon of some kind, he will always use it in preference to other weapons he carries." Page 89 is a little more verbose, however, and goes on to say "If the magical weapon is somehow destroyed or rendered useless the warrior will then use his special close combat weapon (if he has one) finally resorting to his hand weapon if the special close combat weapon is also destroyed or rendered useless." The key phrase here is "rendered useless". Since a lance cannot be used on a turn in which the wielder did not charge, it is rendered useless and a hand weapon is instead usable. The beauty of this interpretation is that there is no longer a contradiction in the rules. To this, of course, there is one exception... Bretonnians. On page 60 of the Bretonnian army book it states, "A character armed with a magic lance will always use it (including in subsequent combat rounds)." The savvy among you may realise a different problem brought about by this rule, but I'll leave that for someone else to point out.
My personal opinion... magic lances are not used after the first round of combat, so any bonuses they give (flaming attacks, killing blow, etc.) do not apply.
|
|
W.E.G
Adventurer
Posts: 230
|
Post by W.E.G on Jan 10, 2011 13:09:37 GMT
ah i do love the Hat of magical hopes and wonders with some knowledge lol
so 8th appears to not overly be good for lances n spears unless u can break the opponent on the charge
|
|
W.E.G
Adventurer
Posts: 230
|
Post by W.E.G on Jan 13, 2011 0:40:41 GMT
it would appear i need the hat of knowledge's guidance again this time for Daemons.
p.94 of the daemons book Stream of Bile - This is Strength 4 Breath Weapon
now by putting this on a GUO or HON they can make the 2d6 S4 Close comabt attacks.
my question is do these attack gain the posion rule?
as page 73 of the BfB says 'Unless otherwise stated, a model with this special rule has both Poisoned shooting and close combat attacks. any spells cast by the model are uneffected, as are any attacks made with magic weapons they might be wielding, whether they be shooting or close combat attacks.'
im assuming they dont but just wanna check else have new respect for a hon and breath attack in combat with plaguebearers and poisoned banner.
|
|
Ben
Adventurer
Rules Lawyer
Posts: 213
|
Post by Ben on Jan 13, 2011 2:19:22 GMT
Afraid I can't really give a definitive answer to this, since I don't have access to the Daemons book to cross reference rules. My assumption is that the close combat attacks from the breath weapon would indeed be considered poisoned, but since they're from a breath weapon they hit automatically and bypass the to-hit roll for auto wounding. Hope this helps.
|
|
Marc
Commoner
Enjoy The Moment
Posts: 48
|
Post by Marc on Jan 13, 2011 15:54:05 GMT
Same as ben said
Well im borrowing from another rule but when poisoned shooting needs a 7+ to hit, it looses it's poisonous quality.
Im assuming the same would apply here, since you cannot roll '6's you cannot get any bonuses associated with it.
By the way, im posting this from work, thats how dull it is here
|
|
W.E.G
Adventurer
Posts: 230
|
Post by W.E.G on Jan 13, 2011 22:46:35 GMT
yeah i relised tht today that the breath weapon hits are automatic so no poison for me :-( still like the 2d6 S4.
but today was a total wipeout didnt actually get a socre with the daemons think lock took a wound, doomwheel down to 2 wounds, only 1 left on the hellpit
plaguebearers are still ok bunkers but def feel the pain for only the one save. survived a few turns against 100 slaves, hellpit and doomwheel
flamers i cant tell u how they are since they were turned into clanrats turn 1
i think the 4 big block units n heralds is prob a better way to go for daemons in future and 2 units of flamers.
|
|
Marc
Commoner
Enjoy The Moment
Posts: 48
|
Post by Marc on Jan 22, 2011 22:44:58 GMT
Okay here we go I gots a question for you all
Given that : a) I have a Ld 9 character acting as General who has the "Crown of Command" page 177 "The bearer of the Crown of Command has the Stubborn special rule." b) He joins a unit c) page 100 of the small rulebook states that a unit takes a Ld test based on the Hghest Ld on the unit d) page 76 states that if a character has the stubborn special rule and joins a unit, the unit benefits from it as well e) the unit has the common banner "Standard of Discipline" page 175 "Models in a unit with the Standard of Discipline have +1Ld, but cannot use the General's Inspiring Presence special rule."
So given all of the above, if this unit has to take a break test... would it test at Stubborn Ld10?
Please remember the unit is not using the Inspiring Presence special rule, their just using the highest Ld value of 10 (ld 9 + 1 from the banner as it affects all models in the unit)
One drawback to this of course is that no other unit could use the general's Ld as he is in a unit that prevents him from using the rule
|
|
W.E.G
Adventurer
Posts: 230
|
Post by W.E.G on Jan 23, 2011 0:42:34 GMT
page 54 of the big fat book (BfB) says that steadfast unit can always take break tests on their unmodified ld or the generals unmodified ld if they are in range of the inspiring presence.
so since the banner is modifying the leaderships id say that they have stubborn at ld9
|
|